I think Mike highly underestimates Joe's HEART ! The Joe Frazier of March 8, 1971 was truly great. That Joe against Mike on his best day ? I'll take " The Smoke ".
Boy if this magazine cover doesn't bring back memories...I had this magazine as a young kid, and I also recall the SI one the year before with Holmes/Cooney on the cover. Those were the days, eh?
By god...in looking at that date...Joe wasn't that old himself when this pic was taken...geez...he was right about the same age as I am now...(!)
BTW - Mike may have said that in his younger years perhaps. I would give him a SLIGHT nod over Frazier, but if the fight went into the later rounds -- it would have been Joe's.
Boy if this magazine cover doesn't bring back memories...I had this magazine as a young kid, and I also recall the SI one the year before with Holmes/Cooney on the cover. Those were the days, eh?
By god...in looking at that date...Joe wasn't that old himself when this pic was taken...geez...he was right about the same age as I am now...(!)
BTW - Mike may have said that in his younger years perhaps. I would give him a SLIGHT nod over Frazier, but if the fight went into the later rounds -- it would have been Joe's.
* That pic enlarges nicely.
Bizz- I remember this issue came out not long before Smokin' Joe made that foolish comeback fight against Jumbo Cummings. As for the SI cover with Cooney-Holmes, do you remember how it was a fold out, with Cooney on the actual cover and you had to pull out the page to view Holmes? Larry saw that, and wasn't too happy with it......SI didn't do Gerry Cooney any favors doing it that way ;)
* I wish I still had those two mags...but I think my Mom threw them out with my old stash of Playboys.
;-(
Bizzy- Yeah, I was rooting for Holmes in that one (My Dead Irish relatives please forgive me ;)) and when I read that Holmes, who wasn't too happy on taking equal money with the challenger anyway, was absolutely irate that the HW Champion was on the INSIDE Page and the Challenger on the Cover, I was like "OH YEAH, THANK YOU SPORTS ILLUSTRATED" lol
Would Joe have handed Tyson his ass? It's possible -- but I don't think so. I like Tyson there. Have I been wrong before?
Bizzy- Of course nothing would be ertain in that matchup other than probably a lot of clinching and nobody taking a backwards step, but I'd like Smoking Joe's chances against Tyson. I think Tyson might've brought more firepower, and even that's a debatable point, but I think Joe could TAKE a little bit more. I look at the fights with Quarry and Bonavena and ask myself if I think Tyson could've endured that adversity and still emerged victorious and the answer comes back No.
Tyson had a hell of a chin; a very underappreciated one. But 'adversity'?
That's all Joe there.
Bizzy- I think he was damn lucky there weren't any really heavy punchers in the era of the mid to late Eighties. The only one that comes to mind is maybe Witherspoon and he missed facing him. I'll MAYBE give you Razor but after that you get into Evander and Lennox, the guys who stopped him. Frazier might've been stopped by Big George, but I really think you've got to put the checkmark in Joe's corner here as well.
Bizzack, I agree that Tyso would have beaten Marvis at the time they met wether he had neck surgury or not. George Benton was Marvis' trainer when he was a young amateur and pro. Back then Marvis was a guy who could box your ears off. Something Joe can't say about himself. Once Joe got involved with training Marvis, Benton walked away because Joe tried turning him into a brawler instead of the skilled boxer that he was. You don't win national titles unless you can box well. On another note, Tyson would have stood up to Joe for a while but Joe was just too tough. Joe fought Bonavena in a knock down drag out brawl and won the fight. When did Tyson ever do that? Sorry but it all comes down to Will and Balls. Tyson had no Will and no Balls. The first time he faced a guy that would fight back he didn't know what to do, he came back and fought a few bums, so what. Although the 2 fights with the limited Ruddock were impressive wins. Then he went away to prison for a while and when he came back the boxing media bought into his badest man on the planet bullshit. Who did he fight when he got out? McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr. and Bruce Seldon. And Seldon took a dive, look at the tape. As soon as Tyson got close he laid down. Then Holyfield beat him and after that he just went on with the circus. The guys a friggin flake but don't confuse balls with being mentaly inbalanced.
By god............that was one hell of a thought-provoking post Sal. *taps on temple* As far as Marvis-Tyson -- agreed. As far as Joe-Tyson? Whew...I don't say anything with a strong degree of certainty there...that = a "PIPE BOMB" ( *puffs on pipe*) No, REALLY -- that one is clearly not a stinker...but a 'THINKER'. Sometimes "reality sucks", but sometimes -- it doesn't.
THIS...is PART of what the youth of America should be taught; "Think both INSIDE the BOX-ing...and 'OUTSIDE the BOX-ing'.
A fascinating exchange...and yes; Frazier-Tyson has now become a mandatory 'Dreamfight'...
Boy if this magazine cover doesn't bring back memories...I had this magazine as a young kid, and I also recall the SI one the year before with Holmes/Cooney on the cover. Those were the days, eh?
