I was told this would be the most accurate and unbiased top-100 list in history. It was compiled by Mr.Gray, and included feeding various different facts and criteria into a computer.
Folks, what follows is about as bizarre and surreal as watching a Fellini/Rod Serling film while under the influence of "psychedelic mushrooms"...
At #1 we have...The great Ray Robinson! (Hey, maybe there is something to this computer stuff, eh? Wrong...)
We also have Virgil Hill at #17, and check out this group making their appearance in the not-so-illustrious "Top-100": Juan Coggi, Dennis Andries, Fabrice Tiozzo, Markus Beyer, and Jorge Castro! (What, Ken Lakusta didn't make the list!!!???)
Gray goes on to make some intelligent statements in other areas, but one just can't get past his list, and the fact that he seemingly took it seriously -- and actually went ahead with it. All I can say is that I think his computer has some sort of strange virus and needs to be re-programmed, and Gray is one odd and eccentric fellow!
bizzack wrote on Mar 31, '07, edited on Mar 31, '07
I had to give it one star for for the mild amusement/unintentional satrical value it possessed! (e.g JUAN COGGI??? There is a touch of comedic brilliance there folks!) Also, if anyone ever says any of my lists are odd -- I can just point them in the direction of Mr.Gray's one!
I just saw that Boxing writer Thomas Hauser recently made reference to this book/list as well. Our thoughts/words on it are remarkably similar! (I honestly don't know quite what else one COULD say about it though. I mean, the list pretty much speaks for itself! LOL!)
Snoop - I couldn't find any direct links with the actual list on it, but I did find a few links that I will post. I learned a little more about Mr.Gray, and yes...his book has been universally 'panned' in the boxing community from what I've seen. Gray is supposedly a BASEBALL writer, and he has this mathmatical "formula" that he uses for baseball. Perhaps it works in that area. He tried it for Boxing -- and it clearly DIDN'T work. He is some type of mathmatician/computer geek, and says that he has logical mathmatical reasons for all of his rankings. Well...that may be so, but as one guy in a link says, anyone that knows anything about boxing knows that the list is utter crap, and that's the bottom-line! Oddly enough, his top-5 is pretty good and reasonable, but from that point on -- all holy hell breaks loose. This guy "John Benson" that wrote the foreward is ALSO a baseball guy, and his glowing 'review' of the book is about the biggest load of donkey-feces my nostrils have ever sampled.
In theory some of his stuff SOUNDS good, and the idea sounded kind of fun and interesting, but once all the 'formulations' and computer data were compiled, and the list completed, you would think that Mr.Gray would have taken one look at it, and went: "Holy sh*t...wev'e got a problem here!" And maybe just chuckled and crumpled it into the garbage can. But this very odd fellow was pleased with it, and in fact stands by it!
I bought the book but haven't delved into it very much at all. Once I saw Joe Frazier ranked as the 400th greatest fighter of all time, I put the book down in disgust and have hardly opened it up. Here are some highlights of Gray's rankings: -Primo Carnera is the 15th ranked heavyweight of all time. He is ranked ahead of Gene Tunney, Jim Jeffries and Floyd Patterson. Joe Frazier is not on the list. -Daniel Zaragoza is ranked as the 28th best fighter of all time -Veeraphol Sahaprom is ranked #33 ahead of Lennox Lewis at #34, Marvin Hagler #42, and Alexis Arguello #46. Jack Johnson is #109. Jack Dempsey #120. Sonny Liston #422 -Dennis Andries is #88 on the list.
Do I have to go on. The author gives a section of varying length to each member of the top 100 and then gives highlights of notable fighters thereafter. Jorge Castro is #89 all time.
bizzack wrote on Apr 23, '07, edited on Apr 23, '07
Among other OBVIOUS things......is this guy not even aware of the fact that Carnera was for the most part a "Mob Creation", and his record about as 'padded' as a deluxe luxury mattress, and with more 'fixings' than the local all-you-can-eat buffet?
bigbwe wrote on Apr 23, '07, edited on Apr 23, '07
Azumah Nelson is #12. Mike McCallum #13. Wilfredo Vasquez #15. Virgil Hill #17. Maxie Rosenbloom #19. Khasoi Galaxy #23. PBF Mayweather #32. Juan Coggi #36 (LOL). Erik Morales #52. Oscar DLH #53. Sugar Ray Leonard #56. Fabrice Tiozzo #59. Tommy Hearns #60.
bigbwe wrote on Apr 26, '07, edited on Apr 26, '07
What did Joe Frazier ever do to the author of "Boxing's Top 100", Bill Gray? Where's Sonny Liston? At the end of the book, the author lists the top 20 champions in each weight class. Although not as bad as the main compilation list, the weight division top 20's are laughable in spots. Here is the list of the top 20 heavyweights of all time according to Bill Gray and his computer. #1 Muhammad Ali #2 George Foreman #3 Joe Louis #4 Larry Holmes #5 Evander Holyfield #6 Lennox Lewis #7 Bob Fitzsimmons #8 Tommy Burns #9 Rocky Marciano #10 Ezzard Charles #11 John L. Sullivan #12 Jack Johnson #13 Jack Dempsey #14 Mike Tyson #15 Primo Carnera (lol) #16 Gene Tunney #17 Jim Jeffries #18 Jersey Joe Walcott #19 Jess Willard #20 Floyd Patterson
Well Bwe, it obviously came down to Frazier, Liston, or Carnera...and in that instance, hey: You've just gotta go with Primo...(LOL)
Yeah, a few omissions (and inclsions) aside, his hvy list isn't nearly as bad as the whole general list, but obviously the inclusion of Carnera makes it basically the same 'hodgepodge' of comical errors and (mis)calculations! (I might just have to get this book, actually! LOL)
Besides, I would almost have to agree with him as it pertains to one of my all-time favorites: Mike McCallum! (Way to go Gray!)
bizzack wrote on Apr 28, '07, edited on Apr 28, '07
Bwe- I personally consider bantam/feather great Eder Jofre to be vastly underrated/underappreciated (due to a lack of poundage and geography) and in fact have him in my all-time P4P top-10. I realize this is a bit higher than most pundits/historians, but I do know of a few that have him as high as #2. Okay, what I'm trying to ask, is this: Did Gray - through his 'breakthrough' findings of a most mysterious and curious nature - not only fail to put Eder in the top-100, but fail to place him in the top-500??? (LOL)
* I still say I have a sneaking suspicion that Gray - through some type of insidiously clever 'cryptic code' - has succeeded in sending out messages to terrorists via his little 'piece of work'. (lol)
P.S - I hope to have a brief little interview with Mr.Gray. However - this might take awhile to arrange - as word has it he lives on another planet.
